The Prophet (ﷺ) and thighing allegation

Regarding fondling, Islam haters allege that the term is used of some sort of sexual practice with virgins which is a totally baseless claim. In order to force add a base behind it, the following is quoted:

عَنْ جَابِرٍ، قَالَ تَزَوَّجْتُ فَأَتَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ ‏”‏ أَتَزَوَّجْتَ يَا جَابِرُ ‏”‏ ‏.‏ قُلْتُ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏”‏ بِكْرًا أَمْ ثَيِّبًا ‏”‏ ‏.‏ فَقُلْتُ ثَيِّبًا ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏”‏ فَهَلاَّ بِكْرًا تُلاَعِبُهَا وَتُلاَعِبُكَ ‏”‏

It was narrated that Jabir said: “I got married then I came to the Prophet and he said: ‘Have you got married, O Jabir?’ I said: ‘Yes.’ He said: ‘To a virgin or to a previously married woman?’ I said: ‘To a previously married woman.’ He said: ‘Why not a virgin, so you could play with her and she could play with you?'”[1]

The word here for play is La’b (لعب) which basically means to play, sport, game, jest, or joke; there is nothing sexual about it. No dictionary would give any other meaning.

Young girls, in general, by nature are more cheerful and active than their older counterparts and this is the fact which the Prophet (ﷺ) stated. Jabir (رضي الله عنه) was a young man who had lost his father in a battle. The Prophet (ﷺ) was not just a leader by name but his actions as well. Jabir (رضي الله عنه) himself states:

يَقُولُ مَا سُئِلَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم عَنْ شَىْءٍ قَطُّ فَقَالَ لاَ

Never was the Prophet (ﷺ) asked for a thing to be given for which his answer was ‘no’.[2]

As the fatherly role taken by the Prophet (ﷺ), he wished the best for his people as he himself said: “I am to you like a father to his son (al-Munawi explained ‘in rank’), and I teach you“. The Prophet (ﷺ) himself married older women but for Jabir (رضي الله عنه), he hoped for someone close to his age so he could also retain his youthfulness. Tragedies make people age before their time and tend to quieten them and depress them. Therefore, if the Prophet (ﷺ) wished the best for Jabir (رضي الله عنه), why should one interfere with negative and perverted thoughts and comments? The Prophet (ﷺ) said: “you could play with her and she could play with you” which indicates that he also cared for the women and both the husband and wife could play, joke, and stay cheerful with each other at the same time. If someone takes play only to be something sexual, then it is their problem which they need to rectify.

Another narration is quoted as follows to arrive at faulty conclusions:

كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِذَا أَرَادَ أَنْ يُبَاشِرَ امْرَأَةً مِنْ نِسَائِهِ أَمَرَهَا فَاتَّزَرَتْ وَهْىَ حَائِضٌ

When ever Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) wanted to fondle any of his wives during the periods (menses), he used to ask her to wear an Izar.[3]

The word for fondle is Yubashir (يباشر) which is not a descriptive word. It literally means to go forth but is used as a polite form of being physically romantic. If the only way for some people to be physically romantic is to take off clothes, then again that is their problem; not of Islam.[4]

After quoting these narrations, a baseless and hateful conclusion is reached at by those who have nothing better to do than attacking Islam:

Notice that Muhammad found the practice of “fondling” virgins preferable to sex with adult women.

It is understandable that a person who grows up in a hyper-sexualised environment and knows nothing of Arabic, arrives at such faulty conclusions; however, such an act is still not excusable. If you don’t know, then ask those who know instead of preaching what you don’t know. This doesn’t require a very high IQ to understand. However, the anti-Islamic missionaries with nothing better to do argue that the Prophet (ﷺ) would have semen marks on his clothes and these could only be due to thighing. The following narration is quoted:

عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّهَا كَانَتْ تَغْسِلُ الْمَنِيَّ مِنْ ثَوْبِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم، ثُمَّ أَرَاهُ فِيهِ بُقْعَةً أَوْ بُقَعًا‏

Narrated `Aishah: I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet (ﷺ) and even then I used to notice one or more spots on them.[5][6]

Why assume that the marks on the clothes were because of thighing? The act of removing entire clothes that is common in hyper-sexualised cultures today was not the act of all cultures. Even today, it is not in all cultures to remove entire clothes for the act of intercourse. Therefore, traces of semen on clothes is not something surprising. Secondly, the argument that the marks were due to thighing also assume that entire clothes were not taken off; so why assume so in one case and ignore the other all-together?[7] Lastly, why would one have an issue with the personal lives of a married couple?

The main argument based on the flawed conclusions

The Prophet (ﷺ) technically married Aisha (رضي الله عنها) before she reached puberty and then practically married her after she reached puberty. In other words, the marriage was decided before her puberty but finalised after she had reached puberty. Based on this backdrop, the anti-Islamic claim states:

This three-year period between marriage and consummation must have been the time when he practiced thighing (unless our Muslim friends want to argue that he practiced thighing with a different virgin).

The deceitful linking of unrelated narrations and misrepresenting them with twisted interpretations have been exposed above and once that faulty base is rectified, the question does not even arise and searching for the time when he practiced thighing is nothing less than being dishonest.

Moreover, the Prophet (ﷺ) married an older lady when he was 25 years old and remained monogamous for 25 years till the age of 50; this proves that the motive of his later marriages was not desire as his enemies claim. During the time between engagement and marriage, Aisha (رضي الله عنها) stayed with her father and so the allegation of thighing with a prepubescent girl does not even arise.

Indeed, Allah knows the best.

References and Footnotes:

[1] Sunan an-Nasa’I, Book 26, Hadith 24

[2] Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 78, Hadith 64

[3] Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 6, Hadith 8

[4] Mufaakhathah is the Arabic word for ‘thighing’. Even though there is nothing wrong in such a personal act between a married couple, the Arabic word here is not expressed; the word used is not descriptive and is general to refer to what we can politely say as being physically romantic. Even if some Muslims scholars today interpret fondling as inclusive of thighing, this would not change anything from the core of the argument; the bottom line is that this act was not done on a pre-pubescent girl. Moreover, the scholars say regarding fondling that it also includes flirting, kissing, and so on.

وفيما يتعلق بموضوع سؤالك، فإن جواز تقبيل الزوجة الصغيرة بشهوة والمفاخذة ونحو ذلك له ضوابط بيناها في الفتوى رقم: 195133 ، وقد بين العلماء رحمهم الله تعالى أن الأصل جواز استمتاع الرجل بزوجته كيف شاء إذا لم يكن ضرر، وذكروا في ذلك استمناءه بيدها ومداعبتها وتقبيلها وغير ذلك… – Source

[5] Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 4, Hadith 99

[6] Another cheap attack is made and that has been explained in detail here: Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) visiting all his wives in one night?

[7] One may be wondering as to why so much details about the personal life of the Prophet (ﷺ) have been recorded in Islamic books. Since, the Prophet (ﷺ) was not just a Messenger but also a role model, it is necessary that we know about his complete message in detail. He (ﷺ) came to clarify, among other missions of his’, all the laws and the way to conduct their personal and private lives as well. It is the duty of the reader to take these positively and not delve too much into them considering the hyper-sexualised environment around them. Take the positive and move on; there is nothing wrong in any of it and the Messenger (ﷺ) was a human being; the best human being ever. Why was Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) polygamous?

13 thoughts on “The Prophet (ﷺ) and thighing allegation

  1. SubhanAllah, I didn’t know after these Islam-haters never stop. I thought that after dozens of refutations of the allegation regarding Prophet’s (saw) marriage to Aisha (r), they have stopped but I was wrong. They brought up a new issue of thighing. JazakAllahKhayr for your refutation.

    Also check out: http://www.askislampedia.com/wiki/-/wiki/English_wiki/_Answering_Allegations_Marriage+of+Aisha+to+our+Prophet#r20
    In sha Allah, i will add this article’s material to the above compilation with this site’s reference. Hope you don’t mind.

  2. Pingback: Does Islam allow marriage with prepubescent girls? | Qur'anic misconceptions addressed

    • If you haven’t heard of the original allegation, then you can ignore it altogether. It’s just silly and very hateful.

  3. Why in the hadith virgin is being used and stressed? virgin is in the same context with playing, if Muhammad was saying playing with children having some strange fun, he wouldn’t have used the word virgin in the same context with playing, hadith scholars being Muslims translated the word لعب as fondling the scholars understood what Muhammad was saying and that’s why they translated لعب as fondling it’s a nice way of saying sexually playing with virgins before consummation of marriages, just like يباشر doesn’t mean fondling either but it’s a nice way of saying to sexually playing with your wives while they are on their period, why Muhammad couldn’t just wait is strange, the word يباشر means sexual intercourse or touch, so Muhammad was still had sex with his wives when they were on their periods by having his thing wrapped in some cloth? the Arabic is clear.

    If Muhammad was stressing some strange play time with prepubescent young girls before finalizing the marriage with sexual intercourse Muhammad would’ve said, why didn’t you marry a young girl so she can make you feel young and you can play with her? this is seriously strange behavior from an adult or teenager especially from a man over 50 years old, Muhammad uses the word virgin and playing the translators being Muslim’s scholars understood the word being used is fondling, not only is Muhammad stressing child prepubescent marriage but telling his followers to marry virgins to fondle them.

    Narrated Jabir bin `Abdullah:

    When I got married, Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said to me, “What type of lady have you married?” I replied, “I have married a matron’ He said, “Why, don’t you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?” Jabir also said: Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said, “Why didn’t you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?’

    • Read again what you’ve written; it doesn’t even make sense. What intimate play can you do with a virgin that you cannot do with an older woman? None!

      Jabir was still a teenager when his father died in battle and he had many young siblings; he was the eldest. Such responsibilities can mature anyone before their age. The Prophet (ﷺ) asked/advised about marrying a young one as opposed to an older woman and he gave his reason (i.e., responsibilities). The Prophet (ﷺ) himself married older women but for Jabir, he hoped for someone close to his age so he could also retain his youthfulness. Tragedies make people age before their time and tend to quieten them and depress them. Therefore, if the Prophet (ﷺ) wished the best for Jabir, why should one interfere with negative and perverted thoughts and comments?

      Your mental gymnastics, and relating totally different and unrelated statements together is foul play. Men and women cannot even shake hands if they’re not married and you’re saying that they can sexually play with each other without intercourse?

      Very bad attempt Dave.

      • Jabir wasn’t a teenager he was born 15 years before the Hijra his father died in the battle of Uhud the conversation was after his father’s death, so Jabir was a young adult, Muhammad asked him if he got married, Jabir said yes, Muhammad said to a young girl or woman? Jabir said to a woman, Muhammad asked him about his liking of young girls’ virgins, Muhammad liked the young girls, virgins, Muhammad brings up his reasons, so you can fondle them and she can fondle you, why is Muhammad even mentioning sexually playing with a young girl, a virgin?

      • Are you mentally stable? Are you a troll? I fail to understand what are you. He was born 15 years before the Hijra and Uhud was three years after the Hijra which would make him 18 when his father died. He got married still as a teenager. Do you know what a teenager is?

  4. A young adult is around 18-30 according to the experts and a court of law, you want to argue with me because I called Jabir a young adult while you’re calling him a teenager this is irrelevant to the subject but this is how people speak, Muhammad was asking a young man if he liked fondling young virgin girls? this wasn’t a young woman but a young virgin girl who wasn’t ready to have sex so the husband could fondle her until he could consummate the marriage this was the conversation, it doesn’t make a difference if Jabir was 18 and you have a problem with me calling him a young adult, this doesn’t justify the young girl being discussed about fondling and marriage.

    In popular culture and in casual use, “young adult” is often a euphemism for a teenager or adolescent.

    According to research and science:

    According to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), young adulthood is generally defined as 18 to 22 or 18 to 25.

    Young adult. Based on Erikson’s research, most people reach this stage between the ages of 19 and 39.
    According to the government

    The Federal Interagency Forum on Child and Family Statistics describes young adults as individuals aged 18-24. source

    Do you still want to argue about me calling Jabir a young adult or young man? it’s perfectly normal I have no problem with you calling him a teenager or young man.

    Muhammad thought it was okay to marry a young girl and fondle her before finalizing the marriage, he’s asking others if they like this, also the girl isn’t a teenager, but a little girl, Jabir describes the girl Muhammad was speaking about as incredibly young she couldn’t even comb her hair like his sisters and couldn’t take care of anybody just like young Aisha at 6 and Allah said nothing about these marriages to children but is more worried about if it’s okay to eat in your homes or if someone should stay to long at your house. Muhammad is going around telling others to marry young girls to fondle them and Allah is worried about people over Muhammad’s house for too long and they should leave, and this supposedly is the religion of truth let’s ignore child slaughter because they have pubic hairs and child marriage and discuss being over Muhammad’s house for too long because it bothers him.

    According to you let’s argue if 18 is a young adult or teenager instead of Muhammad asking others if they liked young girls and fondling them?

    Let’s go over the context and the words being used what Jabir understood what Muhammad was saying.

    Jabir wasn’t allowed to fight in the battle of Uhud his father fought and died this left Jabir with orphan sisters according to the hadith’s they were little girls, sisters Jabir had to look after, take care of, so young they couldn’t even comb their own hair and take care of themselves, while traveling with Muhammad Ghazwa Military Expedition Muhammad asked Jabir if he got married, he said yes, Muhammad said to a woman or young virgin girl? Jabir said to a woman, Muhammad asked why didn’t Jabir marry a young virgin girl so he could fondle her? Muhammad asked Jabir if he liked young girls to fondle. Jabir said he’s not into those things he married a woman because the sisters he needed to take care of were children and couldn’t even comb their hair and take care of themselves, he wanted a woman that could comb their hair and take care of his sisters he didn’t want to marry someone like them being children who were prepubescent and that’s why he married a woman who knew how to take care his sisters.

    Muhammad asked Jabir if he liked young girls for fondling and asked why Jabir didn’t marry a young virgin girl who couldn’t even comb their own hair someone the age of his sisters he didn’t want as a wife.

    Four different hadiths below that explain Jabir didn’t want to marry a child like the sisters he had to raise himself he didn’t want a little girl like them, he married a woman, Muhammad was advocating the marriage of children and Jabir understood what Muhammad was saying to him.

    Jabir said
    `Abdullah (my father) died and left behind daughters small in their ages, so I married a matron who may teach them and bring them up with good manners.”

    Jabir said
    “! My father died (or was martyred) and I have some young sisters, so I felt it not proper that I should marry a young girl like them who would neither teach them manners nor serve them.”

    Jabir said
    “I have sisters (young in age) so I liked to marry a matron who could collect them all and comb their hair and look after them.”

    Jabir said
    “I said: ‘A previously married woman, O Messenger of Allah. ‘Abdullah bin ‘Arm died and left behind young druthers, and I did not like to bring to them someone who was like them, so I married a previously married woman who could teach them and rise them with good manners.’

    You have multiple hadiths about the same conversation about marrying a young girl and fondling her or the word used also being playing with. I know and understand if someone is speaking about marrying a young girl and fondling her this is serious red flag for a dangerous problem and not the correct advice and teachings from somebody who’s claiming to be a prophet and a mercy to humanity with the correct moral teachings and it’s better to stay away from his teachings even if he’s teaching the worship of one creator this doesn’t make his advice of marrying children and fondling them correct, just because he’s monotheistic.

    Muhammad said
    “Why have you not married a virgin to fondle with each other?”

    Muhammad said
    “Why, don’t you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?”

    Muhammad said
    He said: ‘Why not a virgin who would play with you?’

    Muhammad said
    The Prophet said, “Why have you not married a virgin, so that you may play with her, and she may play with you?”

    Muhammad said
    He said, “Why didn’t you marry a young girl so that you could play with her and she with you?”

    Muhammad uses fondling virgin and young girl in the same sentence if you’re marrying a person who have reached puberty and is able to have sex being mature mentally emotionally and physically ready for marriage raising a family having children teaching children you wouldn’t mention fondling in the same context unless you were speaking about a young prepubescent child who’s not ready for sex so while waiting after signing the marriage contract you fondle these young girls as a sexual thing you like to do, Muhammad asked Jabir why didn’t he marry a child and if he’s into fondling them? and you want to argue if you can call an 18 year old a young adult.

    Why is Muhammad asking a young man if he’s into marriage with a prepubescent child? who couldn’t even comb her own hair and the age of his sisters Jabir understood what Muhammad was saying and so did the hadith scholars and that’s why multiple hadiths about the subject uses the words fondling and that’s why Jabir describes the young girl Muhammad wanted him to marry a girl so young around 6 because he’s liking her to his sisters who couldn’t even comb their own hair not only did Muhammad ask a man about marrying children he’s talking to them about fondling them and if this was his thing.

    Now you’re just editing my post going away from the argument to try and win the argument and trying to discredit my intelligence and knowledge by claiming I don’t know the difference between a young adult and a teenager this won’t work I know these tactics Muslims use to discredit their opponent’s intelligence and knowledge about the subject and other subjects by trying to trap them into a mistake, even if it has nothing to do with the subject this won’t work with me. The subject is Muhammad telling Jabir to marry a young girl so he could fondle her, and she could fondle him, you want to argue the age of Jabir being a young adult 18 or a teenager, the experts tell us even in a court of law at 18 years old you are a young adult because your charged as an adult, even Islam. Web has Jabir as a young man, I call him a young adult and you’re having a hissy fit wanting to debate this.

    Jabir married a woman while Muhammad was trying to convince him to marry a child bride a virgin to fondle, are you trying to claim this young girl was a teenager? like Jabir and not a young girl because that’s a lie.

    • Hey Rajeesh, you’ll make things irrelevant because you got caught! It’s understandable but it’s not irrelevant. You really had no idea that he was 18-19. You just found out you messed up there but the fact remains the same. A teenager lost his father and had many siblings who needed care. The Prophet asked why he didn’t marry a younger girl instead of an older one and he gave his reason i.e., responsibility.

      Don’t bring experts and court of law. Islam doesn’t have dates fixed like that. You’re putting another system and culture onto another just to save embarrassment.

      Now the problem is yours if the only virgins you can assume are prepubescent ones. Another problem of yours is totally ignoring everything I’ve said completely. The Prophet didn’t ask him ‘do you like fondling little girls’; that is your sick mind speaking. Fondling isn’t limited to acts with genitals but general playfulness. You can fondle an older woman too – you need to check your filthy mind on this. When a woman is in her menses, they can fondle even then i.e., be playful, teasing, touching, joking etc. and this can be done even when she is not in her menses.

      Marriage with prepubescent girls isn’t allowed in Islam: https://qurananswers.me/2017/08/02/does-islam-allow-marriage-with-prepubescent-girls/ Touching women before finalizing the marriage is OK in Islam? Did you study this in the RSS school of religion? Get a life man!

      The problem is that you have made up your mind with false logic, impressed yourself with your tiny brain and calling it your “intelligence and knowledge”, then you refuse to understand anything and choose to ignore everything. You have made up your mind that fondling is something done on virgin girls, you have decided what the word means without even knowing the language, you have shown total lack of knowledge and when get caught, just brush it away but still you amaze yourself by calling it “intelligence and knowledge”. If that is so, by all means stay as far away from Islam as possible. You’re not needed and there is a special place waiting for you 😉

      Here is a summary again:
      1. Jabir’s father died in battle while he was still a teenager and had many younger siblings.
      2. Such responsibilities mature people before their age.
      3. The Prophet asked why he didn’t marry a younger girl, a virgin, so he could retain his youth and playfulness.
      4. Younger girl would be above the age of marriage and not prepubescent.
      5. To fulfil his responsibility, he married an older woman who would take care of his siblings.
      6. It is not allowed for men and women to even touch if they are not married. Read this to educate yourself and stay humble, Rajeesh: https://qurananswers.me/2017/08/02/does-islam-allow-marriage-with-prepubescent-girls/

      Get a life kid.

    • You could play with her and “she could play with you”.

      Don’t force in what is not there. You are a shallow and superficial copy/pasting troll who’s not reading what has been presented to him. Totally ignored the entire piece written above, totally ignored the details and intricacies, totally ignored the link provided, totally ignored the lack of connection between unrelated and unlinked reports and forced join them, totally ignored Islamic laws and ethics and came here to teach us our religion. You are a vulgar troll and blocked.

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